Fans Forum Last Night

[Dave L]

I cant get on to the Voy board at the moment due to work firewall blocking me so would someone PLEASE post it on the old board as well.

Ok the meeting began with a talk by David McNally where he showed the great growth in the clubs support year on year since MAF took over he also showed statistics which suggest home support has gone up 7.5% this year whilst away fans have gone down 15% year on year. (these must be viewed with caution as how you can accurately allocate the neutral end etc must be difficult and slightly arbitrary)

The clubs mission statement under David McNally is "to support our team and serve our supporters"

In the next close season the grounds capacity is going to be taken up to 30,000.

In the last 10.5 years MAF has invested 200mln of his own money into the club.

Also on the panel were the Security manager "Bob" who came across as quite hawkish hardline.

The meeting opened up to audience participation and there were lots of stories of long standing fans being harshly treated by stewards including two very gentle sister and brothers who have had their christmas presents for their mum manhandled and threatened with eviction for complaining and their coffee flask opened and sniffed by stewards testing for alcohol.

I complained on behalf of the back of the Hammersmith end as to how the football has been ruined by the stewards

David M responsded "that stewards and staff have been threatened as well" which made me think two wrongs do not make a right. Although when pressed he agreed "some of the stewards have lacked common sense"

The issue of away fans in home areas rose up here Bob said he was showing common sense and if they behaved themselves they would be left alone he said they were often with Fulham season ticket holders who had bought them tickets.

There was then more periods where fans showed lots of anger and frustration at the treatment of the fans at the back of the Hammersmith end I made the point that during the Mute complaint by Chris coleman at the quiet Fulham crowd he singled out the back of the Hammersmith End as the only really vocal group and now the club seemed to be hell bent on destroying that.

In the reponses what came out I believe from David Mc was that the club were so keen to get the 30000 increase that they were worried the standing fans would prove a stumbling block from the council, FLA that this was leading to the clampdown on the back of the Hammersmith end.

Another guy of broadly my age to my left made an excellent point..David McNally clearly confirmed that the club would get in equal trouble for away fans standing as for home fans at the back of the Hammersmith end....in which case the chap said "if there are 3000 away fans standing they should totally leave the 100 at the back of the HE alone" The panel seemed to be beginning to take these points on board.

David McNally was now responding with "Stewards need to show more common sense we will look at that" Bob said they had changed stewards at the HE and rhe club were "making an effort with the hammersmith end" The club had told them to make an effort vs West Ham and the consensus was that there was an improvement.

The issue of fans banned by thre club atBoro was fully debated Orm and several parents away travellers stuck up for them very well and gave witness accounts that the Boro stewards were throwing people out very arbitrairily with no warning. Orm made the point that the Fulham travelling policeman agreed that the Fulham fans were badly treated and that he would tell this to the club. so it seemed the fans were being doubly punished.

Bob the security manager said he would talk on the phone and set up meetingswith banned fans where he would listen to their side of the story. Stories of people emailing the club many times and not getting replies were noted by David McN who was surprised and disapointed if peopledidnt get replies and would look into and fix this.

B&W Geezer asked the panel if the threat from the FLA was real given our excellent record of behaviour and that persistent standing is a much bigger issue at other clubs. The answer is "on every visit the authorities are very happy with Fulham"

The club give orders to the stewards through 16 supervisors and they are briefed to show discretion.

Estwelle Whites friend who like me goes with a 9 year old boy then summed up how a lot of us were feeling "after 36 years of coming I am so fed up with the stewarding in the Hammersmith end that next season I am seriously question wether to come any more" this struck a note with many. The bloke is currently on a ban and was thrown out with his son still in the ground exactly my nightmare it is ridiculous that the club are banning 36 year long supporters who are basically decent family men.

The meeting concluded with David McNally giving a wrap up. He acknowledged fully that the club had to change and improve this
and appealed to us to "give us a chance over the last 5 games" he committed to a "full review of stewarding" and was saying stewards had to be "more pragmatic more common sense" the club would "weed out problem stewards" and they were watching them carefully with people covertly reviewing their behaviour. Complaint to Bob

Went to the meeting bit annoyed at an 80 mile round trip midweek but if the club do improve then it wont have been a waste of time. David Mc stressed that he would want to see game by game improvement over the last 5 home games with steady progressive but noticable improvement.

Good to see the old faces and have a couple of beers in the crabtree with Spigs, B&W, Orm and the lovely Sue C

Hope that helps couldn't cover everything but gives a flavour

_________________
"Last season a major problem was the fact that we only won one game away all season. Well you dont have to worry we'll do a lot better than that this season"

[Ooh Aah Peter Baah]

Cheers Dave

So are you happy with what they are gonna try to do or do you still think "theres more chance of us winning the Fa Cup / Premier league double than them listening to" you...

It worries me that David McNally was so shocked by it all. How many emails, letters etc have been sent!!

_________________
"You are Fulham....This is your club...Without you there would be no club" Mohammed Al Fayed

[Dave L]

Ooh Aah Peter Baah wrote:

Cheers Dave So are you happy with what they are gonna try to do or do you still think "theres more chance of us winning the Fa Cup / Premier league double than them listening to" you... It worries me that David McNally was so shocked by it all. How many emails, letters etc have been sent!!

I haven't got a crystal ball but I am hopeful things may improve a bit, they certainly were making positive noises body language towards the end of the meeting, the fans did a good job. We need more of these events as there is a gap between the club and the fans and it needs bridging and it seemed like last night helped a bit.

Lets wait and see (scary memory for my quotes though..spooky)

_________________
"Last season a major problem was the fact that we only won one game away all season. Well you dont have to worry we'll do a lot better than that this season"

[ASPT]

Big well done to everyone who attended and made a difference - all sounds very positive! Lets hope the club come good with their promises.

_________________
"Like the clown who thinks he's a wit - you are half right!"

KTF - COYW

Andy Sayers Personal Trainer

[Ace Of Herts]

so what will be happening to those banned at Boro (as i was 1)? whats the appeal process?

[Dave L]

Ace Of Herts wrote:

so what will be happening to those banned at Boro (as i was 1)? whats the appeal process?

My understanding is that you need to phone Bob the Safety officer at Fulham FC and explain you would like to appeal (be polite non confrontational) Then arrange a meeting where you calmly put your case to him if you are a child a child welfare officer will be there.

If you set up such a meeting touch base with Ormondroyd as he has evidence/witness information that you can use in your defence.

Good luck

Dave

_________________
"Last season a major problem was the fact that we only won one game away all season. Well you dont have to worry we'll do a lot better than that this season"

[W.L.C.!!]

Hopefully Orm will have some positive imfo later, but why have Fulham banned people on the say so of a few stewards from MBoro, its bloody outrageous.....Each case should have been dealt with individually if there was a problem....I can't believe that this has been allowed to happen and that the club still have the bans in place....Shocking....are there any other updates on this ?...

[ormondroyd]

I made that point very strongly indeed, and was backed up by people in the room to a greater degree than I'd ever expected. I spoke to our away day copper on saturday and he seemed a bit suprised that he'd not been invited, and said he'd have said that "the Fulham fans were very harshly treated", which proved to be a strong point in the meeting. Also mentioned other discussions with the police (e.g. the stewards at Bolton being a concern, and the fact they feel we're being picked on... plus a Boro copper saying that "they'll just say you were all being abusive", which correlated nicely with what Bob insisted was "prima facie" evidence... er, no, it's just a letter from Boro).

So there was a strong consensus from the floor that it's not right to arbitrarily ban people based on the word of a few stewards. Also, there was general amazement that when asked why there was no appeal process, Bob insisted all people had needed to do was contact him. Immediately I was able to give details of people who'd contacted repeatedly and got no reply, as were several fathers of fans banned at Middlesbrough and previously. I think McNally, from this and other complaints about lack of replies, was really shocked about the standards of communication at the moment.

I felt I was very much there to represent those fans being picked on at away games by stewards and subsequently double-whammied by the club, and I think that went as well as it could ever have done. The club found themselves facing not a room full of belligerent football oiks (which the current treatment suggests is how we're often seen), but a very reasonable, mixed-age, polite set of long-standing supporters who are utterly pissed off at the way we're all being treated. I think that's a powerful message.

[W.L.C.!!]

Cheers for the update Orm.

Do we know who the emails/letters were addressed to at the club regarding the MBoro bans, and any idea how many have been banned at Mboro.

It sounds to me like someone at the club has just decided to ignore the letters, which, if is the case is adding insult to injury...

Don't know what anyone else thinks, but i think the club should lift all the bans immediatly then look into every case seperately...

PS, Sorry to go on, but i think i'm going to write to the club and would like to get a few facts straight in my own mind...

[Ace Of Herts]

just rung the club and spoke to the security department but this Bob bloke isnt in the office until friday so anyone wanting to get hold of him friday is the day, hopefully I will make Man Utd after all.

[ormondroyd]

Ace Of Herts wrote:

just rung the club and spoke to the security department but this Bob bloke isnt in the office until friday so anyone wanting to get hold of him friday is the day, hopefully I will make Man Utd after all.

He said he was off to a safety officers conference tomorrow which might explain it.

If I were you I'd phone back and ask to speak to Sarah Brookes... see if she has any other suggestions. Bob reports to a more senior person with overall responsibility for the ground.

[Mr Pod]

I don't understand why the chief steward has the say on banning fans where he has no jurisdiction. I can understand banning fans (allegedly) misbehaving at the cottage but I would think his strengths lie in organisation and perhaps making on the spot decisions to alleviate any possible trouble. Did he just get a written report form Boro' listing the names and contact details and decided to issue a further ban?

Seems that we couldn't have had a better group of people to attending the forum. It is too easy for people to concentrate on their own personal issues rather than the general problems in these forums. This means nothing gets done as a particular problem gets sorted and the feeling is something was achieved but not what was important.

I congratulate you all for putting the fans position over so eloquently (and Dave L for keeping to the appropriate subject rather than dwelling on his son and the recent letters). I think it shows the necessity of getting a body of likeminded people together to represent the fans to the club be it a new supporters club or the supporters trust. The voy forum and tfI board seems to have a good cross section of supporters and it seems the majority of attendees post on these boards (I could be wrong) is it an idea to get something going on some sort of regular basis .... even once a year is regular !!!

[ormondroyd]

Mr Pod wrote:

I don't understand why the chief steward has the say on banning fans where he has no jurisdiction. I can understand banning fans (allegedly) misbehaving at the cottage but I would think his strengths lie in organisation and perhaps making on the spot decisions to alleviate any possible trouble. Did he just get a written report form Boro' listing the names and contact details and decided to issue a further ban? Seems that we couldn't have had a better group of people to attending the forum. It is too easy for people to concentrate on their own personal issues rather than the general problems in these forums. This means nothing gets done as a particular problem gets sorted and the feeling is something was achieved but not what was important. I congratulate you all for putting the fans position over so eloquently (and Dave L for keeping to the appropriate subject rather than dwelling on his son and the recent letters). I think it shows the necessity of getting a body of likeminded people together to represent the fans to the club be it a new supporters club or the supporters trust. The voy forum and tfI board seems to have a good cross section of supporters and it seems the majority of attendees post on these boards (I could be wrong) is it an idea to get something going on some sort of regular basis .... even once a year is regular !!!

He stated that he banned them "for bringing the club's name into disrepute". I didn't like that.

[TonyGilroy]

Mr Pod wrote:

I congratulate you all for putting the fans position over so eloquently (and Dave L for keeping to the appropriate subject rather than dwelling on his son and the recent letters). I think it shows the necessity of getting a body of likeminded people together to represent the fans to the club be it a new supporters club or the supporters trust. The voy forum and tfI board seems to have a good cross section of supporters and it seems the majority of attendees post on these boards (I could be wrong) is it an idea to get something going on some sort of regular basis .... even once a year is regular !!!

A representative group of supporters available to meet regularly with the club is badly needed but unfortunately it can't just be an ad hoc group of posters.

FST and FSC still exist but badly need 20 or so supporters willing to work long and hard within those organisations to build up membership and carry out the tedious donkey work needed to give those organisations life.

The bodies were there when Craven Cottage seemed threatened but there was no willingness to carry FST forward into a long term organisation representing supporters and liasing with the club.

In no way am I being critical because, frankly, I've got no stomach for that sort of work but if supporters won't do it we can't really complain that the club doesn't understand us or know our views.

_________________
TonyGilroy

[roycboyc]

[quote="ormondroyd"][quote="Mr Pod"]I don't understand why the chief steward has the say on banning fans where he has no jurisdiction. I can understand banning fans (allegedly) misbehaving at the cottage but I would think his strengths lie in organisation and perhaps making on the spot decisions to alleviate any possible trouble. Did he just get a written report form Boro' listing the names and contact details and decided to issue a further ban?

Seems that we couldn't have had a better group of people to attending the forum. It is too easy for people to concentrate on their own personal issues rather than the general problems in these forums. This means nothing gets done as a particular problem gets sorted and the feeling is something was achieved but not what was important.

I congratulate you all for putting the fans position over so eloquently (and Dave L for keeping to the appropriate subject rather than dwelling on his son and the recent letters). I think it shows the necessity of getting a body of likeminded people together to represent the fans to the club be it a new supporters club or the supporters trust. The voy forum and tfI board seems to have a good cross section of supporters and it seems the majority of attendees post on these boards (I could be wrong) is it an idea to get something going on some sort of regular basis .... even once a year is regular !!![/quote]

He stated that he banned them "for bringing the club's name into disrepute". I didn't like that.[/quote]

In that case I take it Snatchez is banned for life for the way he stunk the place out.

_________________
IT IS ALL ONLY IN BLACK & WHITE !!!
"What's a fat ole one eyed drunk gonna do against 4 of us ?"

"Fill your hand you sonofabitch !"

[Andrew/Hammersmith-ender]

Sounds positive, how many people were in attendance?

[ASPT]

ormondroyd wrote:

He said he was off to a safety officers conference tomorrow which might explain it.

I doubt if that will achieve much, I heard these things are very unproductive, in fact, in 1986 - nothing happened, in 1987.........

_________________
"Like the clown who thinks he's a wit - you are half right!"

KTF - COYW

Andy Sayers Personal Trainer

[Liam]

DID ANYONE ASK WHY OUR SUPPORTER RELATIONS MANAGER IS A LIVERPOOL FAN?

Bit annoyed I forgot to go.

_________________


BRING BACK SIR CRAVEN

[ormondroyd]

ASPT wrote:

ormondroyd wrote: He said he was off to a safety officers conference tomorrow which might explain it. I doubt if that will achieve much, I heard these things are very unproductive, in fact, in 1986 - nothing happened, in 1987.........

Hahahaa, yes...